Christians love to attack Muslims with their claims on “Satanic Verses”. No matter how much its is explained to them, they don’t want to hear the truth because then they have less things to attack Muslims with. The [Debater] brought the same topic to me. She quoted Tabari and formed her opinion from reading anti-islamic sites and from heresy. This was my reply to her and the subject was closed.
You all, quote some unauthentic text and arrogantly assume that you did a great thing and proved your lies to be truth. Remember truth stands clear from falsehood. You try to trivialize the issue and mock by talking about pop corns and coke. You, too, [Debater]? Disappointing and pathetic! Childish attempt at covering the lies. Something like inserting your finger in your ear and block out the truth.
Now, [Debater], you have quoted Tabari. Few months ago, I posted an article about Ibn Ishaq and Tabari. These are historians and they are NOT authentic source of Islamic information. I always ask to bring evidence from Quran or authentic 6 books of hadith but most of you in here always show unauthorized “evidence” from sources which are rejected and weak. Tabari is not hadith. Scholars of Islam have rejected their works and Tabari himself says in preface of his book that he wrote from only what he heard from people. His work is about what people said. He did not authenticate them. He left it to the people to think whatever they want to make of it, just like you. This is what Tabari says:
“Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us.” (Tarikh al-Tabari Vol.1 page 3)
So your quote and your interpretation of it is NOT Quran and NOT hadith so its not worthy of considering. The one attempting to avoid reality is you.
You mentioned two verses:
And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet except that when he spoke [or recited], Satan threw into it [some misunderstanding]. But Allah abolishes that which Satan throws in; then Allah makes precise His verses. And Allah is Knowing and Wise. (22:52)
They are not but [mere] names you have named them – you and your forefathers – for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance. (53:23)
These two verses were sent in different context and has an 8-year gap between them.
About 53:23, again you did not quote completely. These verses are condemning idol worshipers. Now lets analyse what is the exact scenario: This verse (53:23) was revealed in the 5th Year of prophethood, when some of the Muslims migrated to Eithiopia to avoid persecution. You said that Prophet was rebuked for it. That verse is Surah 17 : 73-75. This was revealed in the 12th year of Prophethood. And the surah where you mentioned where he was consoled is 22:52 which came in 1st year of Prophethood. If we are to believe the lies you are taught, then this would mean, idol worship was praised in the 5th year, then 6 years later, he was admonished and when Prophet regretted it, he was consoled about 3 years later! What kind of foolish lie is this? And you believe in this kind of interpretation? Can cherry picking lies be worse than this? Recall what Tabari said in his preface which is quoted above.
Now lets reveal the actual incident which the liars don’t want to hear. When the surah 53 was revealed, so many people where gathered. Everyone present prostrated when the last verse was recited. This included Muslims and non Muslims. Why? Because of the beauty of the way it was recited. It was mesmerizing, eloquent and rhythmic
which made everyone spontaneously prostrate. (Maududi – Tafhim Al Quran) The Prophet prostrated because of the command “But fall ye down in prostration to Allah, and adore (Him)!” Just imagine the scene!
The pagans, after prostrating, realized what they did and to cover up their “mistake ” of prostrating and guilt of doing that, created a story to cover their action. Their story was that Prophet spoke favorably about their idols which made them prostrate!
Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet (pbuh) prostrated while reciting An-Najm and with him prostrated the Muslims, the pagans, the jinns, and all human beings. (Bukhari, Book 19, Hadith 177)
Muslim scholars are unanimous in rejecting the lies invented by anti Islamist to promote their agenda.
Ibn Kathir said: “All the links of this Tradition are unauthentic and I have found no correct version of this with continuous links.” (Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir 5/441-442)
When Ibn Khuzaimah said, “This story has been invented by heretics”. (Tafsir al- Raazi 11/134)
Shaukani says, ‘There is nothing true in it and none of its links is proved.” (Fath al- Qadeer 5/128)
And other scholars : Ibn Jawaz (Zaad al-Muyassar 4/391), Baihaqi (Tafsir a-Raazi 11/135), Qazi `Ayad (Al-Shifa 2/125), Imam Razi (his Tafsir 11/135), Qazi Abu Bakr Ibn al-`Arabi (Al-Shifa 2/126), Alusi (in his Tafsir 13/99) – have ALL rejected the fabricated lies which are satanic in its nature.
About 22:52, you or those owners of anti Islamic sites are being deceitful here by quoting only a part of the context. The context is not related to Surah 53. What does the text say? It says that Allah has never sent before prophets who when they spoke Satan interferes. (Reminds me of someone here who does the same). This is not ONLY for the Prophet Muhammad but for ALL prophets ever sent. But – Allah stops this – He abolishes what the Satan is trying to do because He knows the intention of Satan and Allah sets right the verses that He is revealing to the Prophets. The word used is “Yansakh” meaning lifted or removed. The other important word here is “tamanna”.
“The Arabic word tamanna has two meanings: “desire” and “to recite” something. If the first meaning is taken, it will imply: “Satan tried to prevent the fulfillment of his desire.” If the second meaning is taken, it will imply: “When the Prophet recited the Revelations, Satan created different sorts of doubts about its truth and meanings in the minds of the people.” If the first meaning is adopted, it will imply: “Allah fulfills the Prophet’s desire and makes his Mission successful in spite of the obstacles of Satan and confirms the truth of His Revelations by fulfilling His promises to the Prophet”. In case of the second meaning, it will imply: “Allah eradicates all the doubts and objections inspired by Satan in the hearts of the people and clarifies the confusion created about any verse of the Qur’an in subsequent Revelations”. (Maududi – Tafhim Al Quran)
Allah says, this kind of thing is a trial for those who have sickness in their hearts, who already doubt the Message, meaning the hypocrites and idolaters (also including those anti Islamic site authors). They are misguided and stubborn.
So you see, [Debater] how the liars make up stories just to demonize Islam and discredit the Prophet. I brought the topic of Jesus being tempted by Satan. Another Christian said it was man part of god (Jesus) who got tempted not the Father (ridiculous theory). That is not the point. Jesus was god according to you and satan knew that, but he still tempted him. Does Satan tempt god! How could Satan dare to challenge god or carry him up, promise him kingdom!!!. Its height of stupidity!
“God cannot be tempted with evil.” (James 1:13) Furthermore, when does the switch take place, god personality
changes to man personality. Does Satan know when he is dealing with man or god? The temptation of Jesus proves what Allah said in the Quran that no prophet ever came that Satan did not tempt him! Thank the Bible for that at least.
Side note in the deabate:
Its funny how when I was invited to do a debate with a christian, they made the rule that only Quran was to be used and I insisted on Authentic source of Quran and 6 books of Hadith. Admin would not have it. And now when they want to make truth out of a lie, they shamelessly reject Quran and Hadith and bring an unauthentic weak source which is not even hadith. Really funny! It’s not even cherry picking, its hypocritical!
[Debater] had mentioned the ayah where it says “you and your forefathers” regarding worshiping idols. So she says that this is the proof that Prophet was idol worshiper. Response:
I forgot to mention, [Debater], you said about ” you and your forefathers”, its not directed to to prophet. Its to the general people at that time. You can realize this when you read the surah from the start. Prophet is mentioned as “he” or ” him”… the word used here is “antum” which is plural “you”. So its not talking referring to prophet.
[Debater], you brought up that verse again, even though it was refuted before in Taqiyya. What this tells me is that you did not read my previous reply or that you simply want to demonize Quran and that whatever explanation is provided is out of mind after reading – reading to not understand. The verse is
YUSUFALI: Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith – but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. (16:106)
Well here I will show you taqqiyya from the bible. Hope this time you will read with understanding. Bible says lying is a sin, Quran says the same. No arguments there. So lying is a sin, its wrong but let me ask you – what is a lie exactly?
According to webster’s dictionary:
A falsehood uttered or acted for the purpose of deception; an intentional violation of truth; an untruth spoken with the intention to deceive. (Webster Dictionary)
This dictionary definition. What is biblical definition or even from Quran for that matter? Bible would not completely agree to that definition. Yes, statement which is not true and with intent to deceive is a lie. But is a statement made to create misleading impression also a lie? According to the Bible, I would think not. Bible says in 2 Thessalonians 2:11 “For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie” (Is God Deceptive?)
Let’s look at 1 Samuel 16. Here is a Prophet who was told by the Lord to remove the tyrant king of Israel in Bethlehem. King Saul was someone who would kill to protect his position so Samuel was concerned on carrying out his duty. To put him at ease, the Lord planned/schemed and told Samuel to take an animal with him on his journey to Bethlehem. The intention was to make it seem like he is going to sacrifice the animal. When he reaches his destination, Samuel lies to the elder that he came in peace to sacrifice to the Lord. Did Samuel, the Prophet, tell the truth? Who instructs him to lie? The Lord himself. Samuel’s intention was not to hurt anyone, on the contrary he wanted to protect himself and the people with him. Samuel thus lied on instruction from god. Dictionary says a lie is an intention to deceive but not so according to the Bible.We learn from this that creating a misleading impression is not necessarily a lie. Can God lie? (Hebrews 6:18) We are told in the Bible that God cannot lie but here in the Bible we see God schemes. So biblically, we can say that deceiving with the intention of general good cannot be a lie.
Lets look at another example where the Lord schemes. In Titus 1:2, Lord instructs Joshua to make a “deceptive” ambush from behind the city of Ai. How is it deceptive? Joshua commands his chosen mighty men to lie in ambush BEHIND the city while he and his men approach the city from the front. When the King’s men go after the them, the strong men who are behind the city, should set fire to the city. This is the plan of the Lord.
Since God cannot lie and yet can scheme with deception, can we say that either god lied or that God cannot lie or that deception is not always construed as a lie? Or the Lord is not God since God not cannot lie?
Another Biblical “deception” – the story of Sarah and Abraham. Abraham lied to the king of Egypt, about Sarah being his wife. Abraham, technically did not lie because Sarah was in fact his sister (Genesis 20:1-12) but when he did lie, it was only to protect her and vice versa. They did not lie but they did not tell the whole truth which is deceptive and misleading. Abimelech, the tyrant ruler, accepted their story but not before he felt cheated for them not telling him the whole truth. He did not punish them. Abraham did not repent to him but the king repented for trying to take Sarah. Moreover, the king allowed/rewarded Abraham to reside in any place in the town in security. So the result of that lie was not condemned by the Lord but Abraham was rewarded instead. The ending of the story played out well. The king learnt his lesson, Sarah was returned to Abraham who prays for the king.
We read in the Bible, Isaac did the same thing with Rebacca in Gensis 26:7). Abraham and Isaac were prophets and their descendants were blessed. God did not think much of their lies.
Let’s not forget the story of Rahab, the harlot, who lied to save the lives of the spies from the King of Jericho, in exchange for her own protection. (Joshua 2:3-7) The Bible never condemned her for lying, instead she was praised for her faith. Moreover she was in the genealogy of the Lord himself in the Bible, (Mathew 1:5), and remembered as being faithful (Hebrew 11:31).
Do these stories mean that it is right to lie? It’s never okay to lie. Lying leads to more lies. But from these episodes from the Bible, we need to differentiate the dictionary definition of a lie and the biblical definition. You see, in the Bible, those deceptions were “for the good”; you can say it was lesser of the evil.When God Himself instructs ‘deceptive plans’ and God cannot tell a lie, then we mortals can only follow the reason, the intention, the background of how, why and when we can plan/scheme.
We live in a world where any biblical laws can sometimes run into conflicts. For example what do we do with “though shall not kill” in a war situation? In the case of deception, inevitably and instinctively we tend to lie even with guilt. It comes out from the feeling that we would be held responsible should anything go wrong. For example, you happen to come face to face with a knife wielding criminal looking for his victim. He asks you, if you have seen him, which way did he go and you instinctively lie in order to protect the victim. Is this termed as a sin? Some would say that its taking the lesser evil in order to protect a life. Lying against preserving life. Although it would be wrong to lie, it would be worse to not save a life. From the biblical examples above, we can conclude that lying for the greater good would not be sinful. If it is sinful, then it implies that Jesus sinned while living on earth. But Bible teaches us that Jesus is sinless. Is there a conflict or can we conclude that Jesus chose the lesser of the evil and that does not count as sin?
In all these stories, we learn that God did NOT punish lying when it was about saving lives from those who want to do evil. These lies were for the general good. Bible, however, condemns schemes and lies which destroy the poor and innocent or lies said for profit or to gain power. “Also the schemes of the schemer are evil; he devises wicked plans to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaks justice. It is often the most religious and pious people that will lie” (Isaiah 32:7)
One of the commandment states not to bear false witness (Exodus 20:16, Deut 19:16). If we look carefully at this command, we realize that it does not say “do not lie” – a direct statement. Instead, it says not to bear false witnesses which is a form of lying; bringing false accusation is an insult to the justice of God. However we find many of were false witnesses in Jesus’ trial (Mark 14:56).
Didn’t the Germans lie to the soldiers about hiding the Jews in their homes? Again, from the Bible, didn’t the midwives lie to the Pharaoh about not killing the babies (Exodus 2:19)? God, instead of being angry with them, He blessed them (Exodus 2:21).
Bible is totally against lying but not against those lies that help the to destroy the evil. Lying with evil intent is forbidden and Bible speaks against this in various verses. For example Proverbs 6:16-19, Revelation 21:8. Bible clearly condemns lies of bearing false witnesses, being dishonest for profiting or gaining power and spreading false teachings which would lead people away from Jesus.
In the same light, when the Quran says:
Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith – but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. (16:106)
Is there any evil deceit in this verse? Or is it protecting a life and taking the lesser evil just as the Lord did? Obviously, it is to save lives and God is not against that in the Bible and in the Quran. It is a matter of taking the higher moral good route which outweighs the worse of doing something more evil. In 2 Thessalonians 2:11, God “sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie”, all for the greater good.
I hope this answers your question.
Related to the debate Is God Deceptive I was asked about this hadith:
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “I swear by Him in whose hand is my soul, if you were a people who did not commit sin, Allah would take you away and replace you with a people who would sin and then seek Allah’s forgiveness so He could forgive them.” [Sahīh Muslim (2687)]
You gave a link and judged me of having poor comprehension of Islam. You must be thinking that I never came across the hadith you are referring to but, dear, that hadith is very well known and you seem to have misunderstood it. The same link explains the hadith but its clear you have not read it and its not a commentary explaining that Islam created and wanted sinners – far from it. Anyhow here is my response:
The hadith in question is :
“Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: “I swear by Him in whose hand is my soul, if you were a people who did not commit sin, Allah would take you away and replace you with a people who would sin and then seek Allah’s forgiveness so He could forgive them.” (Sahīh Muslim 2687)
This narration is NOT about Allah (swt) WANTING us to sin but on the contrary, its about His IMMENSE power of FORGIVENESS and MERCY; its about His love for us and WANTING to forgive; about His endless MERCY. He does NOT want us to sin but He knows we will anyway because of the free will He has given us but He is every ready to take us back. Repenting and asking forgiveness are indications of our faith in Him, our belief in Him and our acceptance that HE alone can forgive us. The narration encourages us to ask forgiveness, if not it would be denying Allah’s attribute of forgiving.
Allah (swt) has created angels who are sinless and in total obedience to Him, they always obey and do not have free will. He created Man with a choice. Man needs guidance, he is shown the right path and he is left to make the choice: “Indeed, We have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or disbelieving.” (76:3).
If Mankind was not given this free will, he would not be human anymore. He would be an angel – and that’s why Allah (swt) would replace that type of man with no free choice with one who has a free will; because that is the kind of man He wanted to create. To not have a free will would be taking away our ability to ask forgiveness and repent, to know the true love of Allah (swt) with His incredible power of mercy. One of the most beautiful verse says:
“O my servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah. Verily, Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (39:53).
Also this hadith Qudsi:
“Allah says, ‘I am just as My servant thinks I am, and I am with him if he remembers Me. If he remembers Me in himself, I too, remember him in Myself; and if he remembers Me in a group of people, I remember him in a group that is better than them; and if he comes one span nearer to Me, I go one cubit nearer to him; and if he comes one cubit nearer to Me, I go a distance of two outstretched arms nearer to him; and if he comes to Me walking, I go to him running.’ (Sahih Al-Bukhâri, 9/7405 ).
Allah (swt) is merciful so with this choice which He has given us, He has also taught us to forgive and repent because Man can err and stray. Man is not angel and he cannot live a sinless, error-free life. That would make him an angel and not human. But Man was made to choose.
Allah says “Those people that truly repent back to Allah, I will take all their mountains of evil deeds and convert them to good” (25:70)
This is another beautiful verse which says if we sincerely repent, ask forgiveness and do righteous deeds, He will not only forgive but turn those sins into good deeds. This is how much He loves us and how much He wants to forgive us for our sins. He forgives again and again.
Many verses and hadiths show us how Allah (swt) does not want us to approach anywhere near sin. So this hadith really makes no sense you think its about Allah (swt) wanting us to sin.
Among the many things that Christian (missionaries or otherwise) argue about is that there is no evidence that Makkah existed before the 4th Century. What I usually say is that absence of evidence does not mean that it did not exist. It simply means that the evidence has not been discovered yet.
However, Ka’abah which is in Makkah DID exist long before the Prophet Muhammad (p).
The Greek historian, Diodorus Siculus has written historical documents in the 1st century BC and is known for his Biblitheca Historica. Siculus is the first historian to mention Makkah long before Islam. He wrote: ”And a temple has been set up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians”. Siculus died in 30 BC.
In his book, Siculus wrote (translated from Greek writing and quoted by Edward Gibbon “Diodorus of Sicily”):
“And a temple has been set-up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians.” (Translation by C H Oldfather, Diodorus Of Sicily, Volume II, William Heinemann Ltd., London & Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, MCMXXXV, pg. 217)
Reverend Charles Augustus Goodrich, a Christian writer and church minister wrote in his book “Religious Ceremonies and Customs”:
“Among the variety of fabulous traditions which have been propagated by the followers of Mahomet, concerning the origin of this building, we find it asserted, that its existence is coeval with our parents, and that it was built by Adam, after his expulsion from paradise, from a representation of the celestial temple, which the almighty let down from heaven in curtains of light and placed in Mecca, perpendicular under the original. To this the patriarch was commanded to turn his face when he prayed, and to compass it by way of devotion, as the angels did the heavenly one. After the destruction of this temple by the deluge, it was rebuilt by Abraham and his son Ishmael on the same spot, and after the same model, according to directions, which they received by revelation; and since that time, it has continued to be the object of veneration to Ishmael’s descendants. Whatever discredit we may give to these, and other ravings of the Moslem imposter concerning the Caaba its high antiquity cannot be disputed; and the most probable account is, that it was built and used for religious purposes by some of the early patriarchs; and after the introduction of idols, it came to be appropriated to the reception of the pagan divinities. Diodorus Siculus, in his description of the cost of the Red Sea, mentions this temple as being, in his time, held in great veneration by all Arabians; and Pocoke informs us, that the linen or silken veil, with which it is covered, was first offered by a pious King of the Hamyarites, seven hundred years before the time of Mahomet.” (Religious Ceremonies and Customs, Charles Augustus Goodrich, Hartford: Published by Hutchinson and Dwine 1834, pg 124)
Encyclopedia Britannica makes a similar mention:
“Each tribe, each family, each independent warrior, created and changed the rites and the object of this fantastic worship; but the nation in every age has bowed to the religion as well as to the language, of Mecca. The genuine antiquity of the Caaba extends beyond the Christian era: in describing the coast of the Red Sea, the Greek historian Diodorus has remarked, between the Thamaudites and the Sabeans a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by ALL THE ARABIANS: the linen or silken veil, which is annually renewed by the Turkish Emperor, was first offered by a pious King of the Homerites, who reigned 700 years before the time of Mahomet.” (Encyclopedia Britannica: Or, A Dictionary of Arts, sciences and Miscellaneous Literature Constructed on a Plan Volume 2, by Colin Macfarquhar pg 183 – 184)
Sir William Muir writes in “Life of Muhammad“:
“A very high antiquity must be assigned to the main features of the religion of Mecca… Diodorus Siculus, writing about half a centruy before our era, says of that part of Arabia washed by the Red Sea, ‘there is in this country a temple greatly revered by all thr Arabs’, These words must refer to the holy house of Mecca, for we know of no other which ever commanded the universal homage of Arabia. …Tradition represents the Ka’bah as from time immemorial the scene of pilgrimage from all quarters of Arabia: from Yaman, Hadzramaut, and the shores of the Persian Gulf, from the desret of Syria, and from the distand environs of Hirah and Mesopatamia, men yearly flocked to Mecca. So extensvie a homafe much have had its beginning in an extemely remore age.”
Another 2nd century writer by the name of Claudius Ptolemy from Alexandria, also mentioned Makkah in his writings. Ptolemy was well known mathematician, geographer, astronomer and a writer. In his writings, he mentions Makkah as “Makoraba”:
“Mecca (Makkah al-Mukarramah, lit ‘Mecca the blessed’). For thousands of years Mecca has been a spiritual center. Ptolemy, the second century Greek geographer, mentioned Mecca, calling it ‘Makoraba’. Some have interpreted this to mean temple (from Maqribah in south Arabian) but it may also mean ‘Mecca of the Arabs’.” (The New Encyclopedia of Islam By Cyril Glassé pg 302)
Another writer, IIya Pavlovich (1898-1977) who was also a History professor at University of Leningrad talks about Ptolemy in his book:
“On the caravan route from Syria to the Yemen, in the Hijaz neighbourhood, lay Mecca. Ptolemy, the Greek geographer, mentions it as early as the second century calling it Makoraba, which is derived from the south Arab word Maqrab meaning ‘sanctuary’. (Islam in Iran by I. Pavlovich Petrushevsky pg 3)
Interestingly, Ptolemy, not only wrote about the temple in Makkah but he made several maps showing more than a hundred villages in Arabia Felix.
Names of places from Ptolemy map
Ptolemy World Map Showing Makkah in Hejaz )
Other ancient writers who mentioned Makkah are Ammianus Marcellinus in 2 AD and Pliny the Elder in 1 AD.
Response we received on the discussion of Where is the Injeel?
The response on last the debate was nothing surprising. I feel that Christians do not want to ponder on the words or reflect or analyse …. they simply read with the mindset that “what I am reading now is a lie” so psychologically from the onset they have already made up their mind that all what they are about to read is false. They then quickly scan through it or ignore it and respond that its all a lie or its a copy and its not my own opinion.
That is really the response I expected. The article plainly said that the Injeel, as a document in its pristine form, as a book, is non existent but some parts of it do exist in the bible albeit in a faded form. Nevertheless, the questioner was continually asking for evidence of the Injeel! What can we say to such people except that they did NOT read the article or read it with closed mind. Jesus is Injeel, she said. I agreed, yes he was Injeel because he spoke the words of Injeel but that does not satisfy her – show me injeel, she says! Lol.
But that was not the funny part of the response I got. The funny part came from an individual whom I shall address as SP. Now SP became all cranky and started saying that this article was not my own opinion but a copy/paste! Now, before I proceed with his ridiclucous response, I want to make it known that these Christians will sometimes demand our opinion and when its given, they say this is merely “your opinion, we need facts and evidence”. Ok then, when Muslims proceed to give quotes from Quran, hadiths, bible or any authors, they say this is copy/paste and they want opinions of scholars. We proceed with opinions of scholars – okay, so whats their response: this is all hogwash! So you see, they are not really interested in knowing another perspectiveof faith but want to stay blinded by their own thoughts. Nothing satisfies them, why? Beats me.
Now back to our SP. He claimed that this article was copy/paste and when I denied, he started googling some text of the article and happens to find this blog. With this ‘gem’ of a find, he pastes it in the forum and says that I pasted from an unknown blog writer! Had a good laugh! When I told him that “That is my own blog and thanks for advertising my blog, he disappeared for a while.
SP comes along next day and says that I am “EXPOSED’ and that I copied from that same blog (LOL) and wants me to proof that its my blog. So I again assure SP that it IS indeed my blog. But he was not having it! He started investigating me. When did I start this blog, he asks? Then he started quoting paragraphs from old articles from this blog in his weak attempts at proving his allegations. Although at first I did not understand his quotes (hey these were from 2009-2010 articles, who remembers the details?) but suddenly I recognized my own text. When I mentioned this, he said that I “looked” into it!!! OMG, can you believe this guy!? Go ahead and write a comment on that blog, I told, and I will reply to him from there in order to satisfy his … I don’t know, ego? – But he didn’t – he was afraid that I would be proven to be right, maybe. I thanked him again for all the curiosity he was creating for my site and for the free traffic! He can subscribe to my blog for the latest updates! Lol.
Anyway, I was thinking to myself, why the heck should I care if he believes anything at all. I am not answerable to him. He is not the boss of me! This article was meant to be about the Injeel but he diverted the topic so much that I am forced to think that this was the whole idea. Or does he think that a Muslim cannot write? Oh well – but it was fun!
If I get the time I can post images of that discussion.
This article is in response to my debate with Christians.
Muslims believe in the original revealed words given to Moses and Jesus (pbut). The books are Torah and Injeel among others. These books no longer are in their pristine form. They have been tampered with. Here I want to answer some on the questions asked by the Christians.
WHAT IS INJEEL?
Muslims believe in the original words of Jesus (as) as inspired by God. This is referred to as Injeel. Prophets receive knowledge from God in forms of guidance, commands or historical narratives. Jesus (as) was a Prophet and he received revelation. Quran confirms, in Surah 5:46, that he received guidance, instructions and light. So there is no question that Jesus (as) did indeed get inspiration from God.
Christians often ask where is the evidence of this Injeel. There is no physical evidence of it. But does lack of evidence, mean that it did not exist? This is fallacy in reasoning. Just because no one today has seen evidence of the Injeel, this does not mean that it did not exist at all. Jesus (as) received the word of God and he transmitted them orally. It was not written down. People at the time during the ministry of Jesus were in the impression that the end of time was very near, so they did not think to preserve the revealed words on to documents for future generations. They preached and waited for the end of time. They were expecting it.
SO THEN WHAT HAPPENED TO INJEEL?
Most of the Gospels which we have now are not gospel truths. They are mostly heresy – written accounts of eyewitness. The author themselves were not eyewitnesses. There are many evidences that the real authors of the Gospels were not really the disciples chosen by Jesus (as). Of course the Gospels speak about the twelve disciples chosen by Jesus (as) himself; but the names Mark and Luke do not appear among these twelve. Why not? Bible scholars also have evidences to prove that the other two Matthew and John were also two persons different from their names says who they were. So the opinion that the disciples of Jesus (as) wrote the Gospels is suspicious to say the least. Most of the accounts are letters written to people or its about the life of Jesus (as).
The first point to realize is that Quran talks about the revealed Word Injeel given to Jesus – to Jesus – not to Paul, not to Mark, Luke, John, or Mathew … no, but to Jesus. (Surah 19:30-33) So Injeel is the divine revelation given to Jesus (as). Its interesting to note the similarity between the time of Jesus and Mohammed (pbut). Early on in the teaching of Jesus, the church spread the good news orally and did not have it in written form. So there was no “Bible” in the time of Jesus (as) and the only reason that they started collecting the teachings and writing down was because: “First the Apostles started to die off. And second, the Lord’s return was evidently not going to happen within the first few decades of the church’s existence” as they had imagined. (“Reinventing Jesus” Pg.26)
R.V.G Tasker, Professor of New Testament Exegesis at the University of London says that; “There were at least thirty-five years of Christian teaching and Christian missionary activity before the believers were in possession of the written records of Christ’s life and teaching, which we know as the four Gospels” ( Tasker R.V.G. “The Nature and Purpose of the Gospels” Pg.9) But the gospel (good news) was being preached : Jesus went into Galilee and proclaimed the Gospel of God. He said, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the gospel!” (Mark 1:14-15). End of time is nigh – that is what was being preached.
Where are those teachings? We have neither the Gospel of Jesus nor Gospel of God with us. Do we have any book that was written while Jesus (as) was among the people? It was only after Jesus (as) left the earthly abode that Paul started talking about “other” false gospel.
“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!” (Gal 1:6-9)
Interestingly, Jesus (as) refers to the teachings as “gospel of God” in Mark 1:14-15 quoted above, while Paul refers to it as “my message”. “My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power” ( 1 Cor 2:4) Paul makes it seem like its his own message which in a way indicates a difference to the original message. Yes the new message could well be Paul’s own personal ones.
Sadly much of Injeel – the Gospel of God, is forgotten or changed. So we do not have Injeel in its original form. We cannot reconstruct Injeel since Jesus didn’t leave a original copy of it for us today. Much of the Bible was written between 95 to 240 CE. The Torah was sent to Moses, and the Injeel was sent to Jesus, (pbut) and not to the disciples. Allah (swt) did not say He will protect Injeel so its not preserved. Protecting the Injeel was the man’s job but instead of protecting it, man tampered with it. But Allah (swt) had said He will protect the Quran : ( 2:97) “To thee (Muhammad) We sent the scripture(Quran) in truth confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety”.
IS GOD WEAK, DID HE LIE? WHY DID HE NOT PROTECT HIS WORDS?
Why did God allow His precious Words to be corrupted? Is He weak or did He lie? God did not lie, He is not weak but He is the Wise Almighty and its us, humans, who are the weak ones. In fact one cannot blame God, The Originator of Messages, for allowing His words to be corrupted. Such blame ONLY falls on men – men who are weak enough to distort Words to manipulate the masses for power, to control the people, for monetary gain through power ..etc. This kind of mentality may work in general materialistic world but it will not work in this unique case, because God, has already replaced the human abused and tampered product with far SUPERIOR product – the Final Revelation – The Quran, which, by the way is another testament of God’s existence and that He not only can save and protect His Word – have the final say, if you will – but He also gave mankind a chance to correct himself and follow His True Word to be saved. He is the Most Beneficent and Most Merciful. Man lied to himself by thinking that he can play with God’s Words, that he can trick the people for his own benefit. Its his own weakness that led to his own destruction.
How did man fail to protect his Books? He failed by falling short of its commands, by deviating, by believing in lies …etc. When the Jews lost God’s grace and they began to sin against truth they failed. How? By misusing Scripture itself, by either taking words out of their right meaning, or applying them to things for which they were never meant; in this way they conveniently forgot a part of the Message and purpose of Allah (swt); they invented new deceits to support the old ones. They substituted similar sounding words…etc
Surah 5:41 says “O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say “We believe” with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, ‘If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!’ If any one’s trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such – it is not God’s will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.”
When Jesus (as) returns, he will not judge by the Bible (which he never saw, anyway) because those are not words revealed to him but changed, edited, modified, deleted, added to. He will judge by the Quran which confirms the Injeel – confirms gospel of God!
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 4.658 Narrated by Abu Huraira Allah’s Messenger (saws) said “How will you be when the son of Mary ( Jesus (a.s.)) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Quran and not by the law of Gospel?”
Are any of the Gospels told or narrated or written by Jesus (as) himself? My Christian friends say that even though Bible has changed, the core message is the same. I ask you, what is the point of having only the core when the body is missing? Are you to only have the core and leave the rest out? Is that enough? What if you are missing some important parts? Don’t we want to know the whole true message.
The current Gospels are supposed to be “inspired” by Jesus(as) and God. They claim to have been written about the Gospel of Jesus(as). Considering what the Quran says in, 2:77-79, I don’t think it needs further explanation. The Bible is an account of the events and actions of Jesus – not completely the inspired word. The Injeel was the inspired Word of God. Injeel is basically not available in it pristine form.
CAN GOD’S WORD BE CORRUPTED?
Its true that the original Words of God CANNOT be tampered with. Allah (swt) has the first copy. One cannot corrupt the original Mushaf of the Kitab Preserved Tablet which is with Allah (swt). However what can be distorted is whatever is dictated from the Preserved Tablet into copy on earth. And who can distort it is only men who have strayed, who have lost his faith and have come to love the world more that the essence of our purpose in being here. And God only allowed it to happen as a test.
Moses (as) had predicted the corruption of God’s Words that would happen after his death: “For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn away from the way I have commanded you”. (Deut 31:25-29). The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after, did indeed confirm this corruption: “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.” (Jeremiah 8:8)
According to Islam, Allah (swt) in Surah 2:174, says He will put fire into there bellies on Judgement Day for trying to distort the message. Why did He say that? Because He knows that it has happened and he knew it was going on during the ministry of Muhammad (pbuh) as we will see in the hadith below. He gave the people of the Book as a test and they simply blew it! Bible and its followers agree that it has been changed. The NIV has over 30 verses removed from it. David Wood, a Christian Apologist, admits that the last 12 verses of Marks Gospel is unauthentic.
Various Bibles are in circulations now:
Protestants with 66
Catholics with 73
Greek Orthodox with 78 books
Ethiopian Church with 83 books to complete it Canon.
Each group claims there complete Canon is the correct while others contain extra unauthentic Gnostic Books
Bart Erhman, scholar of New Testament, tells us even the terms Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are not found in the earliest ancient manuscripts. These titles were added later. Therefore the four Gospels we have today are not written by the four supposed disciples of Jesus. The four Synoptic Gospels do not even claim they are written by those disciples of Jesus. Paul was fearing disciples of Jesus turning to a different Gospel. This is an indication that even at that time, there were different gospels. (Or was it the original Injeel, he was afraid people would turn to?)
Allah (swt) says in Surah 5:13: “But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them, and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places. And they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall observe treachery in them excepting a few of them. So pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good.”
The Quran came as the final message which Allah (swt) has promised to personally guard the Quran from corruption.
Surah 15:9 – “We have without a doubt, send down the Message and We will assuredly guard it”.
Surah 75:17 – “It is upon Us to collect and compile it (i.e., the Quran) and to promulgate it”.
THEN WHY DOES QURAN ENDORSE TORAH & BIBLE ?
Christian missionaries love quoting Surah 10:94 that Muslims are commanded to judge by the Gospel. The Quran and Prophet (pbuh) clearly refute this claim that the Prophet (pbuh) referred to their books and asked Muslims to read them. So why Quran asks Jews and Christians to be judged by their book if they are corrupted?
The answer to this only becomes clear if we understand the context. Christians fail to identify and understand how the Quran uses the terms ‘Torah’ and ‘Gospel’ in the Quran. The Quran mostly speaks about the original revelations sent to Moses and Jesus (pbut). How do we know this? Well, Allah (swt) makes it very clear that He is referring to the revealed book PRIOR to the Quran, revealed to the nations of Moses and Jesus (pbut):
Surah 46:12 – “Prior to this, the book of Moses was the guide and mercy. This book, (the Quran) is in the Arabic language and it confirms and validates (the book of Moses)”.
Ibn Kathir says in his commentary to such verese:
“This means that before the Quran, there was the Book of Musa, the Torah. (A guidance and a mercy) This means that Allah, the Exalted, revealed it to that Ummah as a leader for them and a guide for them to follow, as a mercy from Allah upon them. Therefore, whoever believed in it with true faith, then it would lead him to believe in the Quran as well”.
The Quran came as final revelation to all mankind, to correct the changes that man made to the Word of God. Quran says that it confirms the message. How? It confirms by affirming the real revealed Words and correcting those parts that are changed.
Surah 5:68 – “Say: ‘O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and ALL the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.’ It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith”.
Surah 5:43 – “How come they (come) unto thee (Muhammad) for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment (for them)?”
Reading this without knowing the context gives the reader the impression that Allah (swt) is asking the Jews to follow the Torah even though Quran says it is corrupted. The story behind this verse is that the Jews of Madinah approached the Prophet (pbuh) to pass a judgement on a Jewish adulterer. In their book, an adulterer is to be stoned but they hid this from the Prophet and asked him how he would judge the guilty. The Prophet (pbuh) replied that they should judge this man according to their own Law.It so happened that a companion of the Prophet (pbuh), Abdullah ibn Salam, who was familiar with the scriptures pointed out the verse and exposed the Jews’ deception. Then the Prophet (pbuh) had that man stoned according to the law in the Torah.
Surah 5:43 was revealed to criticize the Jews who came to the Prophet (pbuh) asking for judgement. It is not informing the reader of the Quran that the Jews have the uncorrupted scripture even thought the punishment is the same in both books. Ibn Kathir comments: “Allah then chastises the Jews for their false ideas and deviant desires to abandon what they believe is true in their Book, and which they claim is their eternal Law that they are always commanded to adhere to. Yet, they do not adhere to the Torah, but they prefer other laws over it, although they believe that these other laws are not correct and do not apply to them”.
In another case of punishment for two adulterers,we find that Prophet asked the most knowledgeable men of the Jews: “What punishment do you find in the Torah regarding these two?” They said, “In the Torah, we find that if four men testify that they saw his male organ in her womb, similar to when the eyeliner is inserted inside the eyeliner container; in this case they are stoned.” When the Prophet asked them why they did not carry on with the sentence, they said that they hated killing. (Sunan Abu Dawud, hadith no.4452).
The interesting point to note here is that in Old Testament, adulterers are to be killed (Lev 20:10). But nowhere do we find anything about four witnesses or any eyeliner (which Islamic rule demands). This shows some distortion in the Torah in this section happening at the time of the Prophet (pbuh).
Regarding the Bible:
Surah 5:47 – “Let the People of the Injeel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers”.
This verse is very clear, Allah (swt) is obviously saying, let the Christians be judged by that which has been REVEALED to them by Allah (swt) – that which is truth. But whosoever judge by anything else (by man made rules) they are evil! Allah (swt) commands the Christians to judge by the revealed judgement, not by the New Testament which is a collection of books written by a wide variety of authors. In this case, Christians are unable to judge by these Books except through the Quran because the Quran was sent down affirming its original message and is a protector over it, as mentioned in Surah 5:48 “And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed…”
It becomes clear also now that the Jews and the Christians in the time of the Prophet (pbuh) are to be judged from their books which agrees with the law in Quran. Ibn Kathir quotes well known Quranic commentator Ibn Jarir Al Tabari as saying, “Ibn Jarir said, ‘The Quran is trustworthy over the Books that preceded it. Therefore, whatever in these previous Books conforms to the Quran is true, and whatever disagrees with the Quran is false’.”
Narrated Abu Huraira: “The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah’s Apostle said (to the Muslims).’Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, ‘We believe in Allah and whatever is REVEALED to us, and whatever is REVEALED to you.” (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460).
The hadith is saying that as long as the Torah agrees with the Quran, it is to be believed however if the Torah doesn’t agree with the Quran then it is not to be believed. And we believe only in the original revealed Words. Imam al-Tabari relates from the eminent Jurist Ibn Juraij (80-150 AH/699-767 CE) that if the people of the book quote something from their Bible that disagrees with the Qur’an then we reject it but if it agrees with the Qur’an then we accept it. Imam al- Bahgawi has similar views. (Tafsir Al Baghawi, 1/65)
So where is the Injeel? The Injeel can only come alive again today when Christians both preach the message of Jesus (as) and live out God’s love towards all mankind. This is the Injeel revealed by the Bible and it reveals a loving, gracious, merciful, just and wise God. Jesus (as) taught about love, about loving enemies and turning the other cheek … etc. However, Christians, for much of history, have a particularly poor track record of loving Muslims. Could this failure to live out the Injeel be the reason why Muslims have not yet been able to recognize the fading Injeel in the Bible?
I find it interesting that Allah (swt) has indeed preserved and protected parts of Torah and Injeel that are relevant and which coincides with the Quran. People of the Book might say that the Prophet (pbuh) copied these messages from the previous books. Well, you can say not copied but confirmed! How is it then, that errors from the Bible are not copied into the Quran?
As far as we can see, the Injeel is not with us now. Discoveries of ancient manuscripts do testify to the changes in the text and expose the truth. New discoveries may continue to reveal more of the truth. Some discoveries are even hidden from the public. So who knows what is really out there? Personally, I feel truth will prevail so gradually truth will be known. In sha Allah.